Aren't you clever and modern to seek Deepseek AI! I prefer Version 2.0. I find the brevity more powerful, and I love the way this sounds, "Seated sipping icy-clear water" ~ it sounds slippery as tea!
I, too, dabble in AI use -- it can be handy for brainstorming and lesson planning. As far as I'm concerned this is one of the virtues of being GenX, we mainly use the internet and AI as tools. xo
Ask for 绿饼 or 生普洱, they are higher in caffeine though, and you can age them yourself. BTW I am surprised that as someone from Hong Kong you don't like Puer lol.
Thanks for the tips. Well, as someone from Hong Kong, I did not follow the traditions and hardly ever went to Yum Cha (dim sum) due to my parents' background (from Hangzhou and Indonesia). So I never developed the taste for puer. We drank a lot of dragon well though, famous from our hometown.
Thank you for sharing, Yi! I think AI struggles with this kind of translation, but it an communicate something of the mood. I'd marginally prefer the second version.
I use AI a fair bit (not on here) and gave DeepSeek a try. It had a meltdown the first time, then on a diffrent task it performed ok, though quite slowly.
But if you’d ask AI to directly compose a poem (whether in Chinese or English), it does it quite alright (in terms of following the rules of poetry). I suppose they are not trained to translate poetry, especially not the poetic imagery or aesthetic atmosphere.
Well, humans can still hang on to artistically creative jobs! lol
DeepSeek actually performs quite well in math and reasoning; the slowness you experienced could be the cloud host being overwhelmed by its “sudden fame”. Its LLM is small enough that most of us can run it locally. That is a big plus.
So interesting to read these two versions side by side. I have to say that neither is written by a poet. I love the photos. The tea sets and incense burner are gorgeous! Thank you for sharing, Yi.
I have not tried Google Translate ever since the popular AI Chatbots started running around ... Come to think of it, hasn't Google always been some sort of an "AI BOT"?
AI certainly has a lot of potential, and if there is an AGI, this "potential" is unimaginable now. But until then, it is just yet another tool in us humans' toolbox.
Alright, you are the second reader who asked for that. I will write about my experiences (so far) in the near future. Thanks for reading, and, be curious!
I like both versions because they both translate better than I could do :) I love reading the comment even more. Great minds meet here and spark intriguing thoughts and discussions, which I enjoy a lot. I am sure AI doesn't experience feelings.
Since the two translations have completely different meanings -- ashes vs tea leaves, sipping vs. ladling (spelled wrong by AI) water -- which one is correct?
Both translations of 酌 （sipping and ladling) are correct, so it really leaves modern readers to contemplate what the poet actually meant at that time. Strictly speaking, 尘 translates to dust, but it is not uncommon for Chinese literature to use word meanings metaphorically to describe something that's "dust-like".
"laddle" was my typo LOL but it's interesting that spell-check did not catch it.
Haha, I still need to work on it further. I think there is much still missing in both translations, not to mention that my translation may not even be considered a proper "English poem" (lacking proper meter/rhym?) I did copy and paste the dialogue I had with DeepSeek, but have not found a way to attach it within either the comments or Note.
Free verse poetry doesn't have to adhere to meter/rhyme rules. Poetic tone exists in the translations, and I like the image of ladling icy water (but for making tea, why would the waterbe icy?).
Thanks, Shonda! Appreciate the validation - I had been dabbling in free verse poetry for the exact reason you mentioned!
As for this poem, since the title specifically mentioned using "mountain springs" to brew tea, icy water before brewing makes sense. 泠 means cold and clear. What I have not expressed, is the doubling of 泠泠, which matches 瑟瑟 in the next line ...
I'm a translator, and I've been slowly but inexorably losing work, due to AI, so any mention of it makes me sad. Anyway, I prefer Version 1, if only because the poem's title is "Thoughts While Brewing Tea with Mountain Spring Water". Version 2 could work, if the title were something like "Thoughts While Sipping Mountain Spring Water, While The Fire In The Fireplace Slowly Goes Out." I'd like you to write about your "dialogues and collaboration" with DeepSeek, I think it'd make an interesting and "illuminating" read. Last but not least, that pumpkin-shaped teapot is a thing of beauty.
I am sorry, Portia, about how AI is starting to eat into jobs! I am also worried when I read some postings that were so obviously (and completely) written by AI. I think that more than jobs, our creativity is being threatened or at least challenged.
I will message you (or using Notes) to post my dialogue with DeepSeek.
Aren't you clever and modern to seek Deepseek AI! I prefer Version 2.0. I find the brevity more powerful, and I love the way this sounds, "Seated sipping icy-clear water" ~ it sounds slippery as tea!
I, too, dabble in AI use -- it can be handy for brainstorming and lesson planning. As far as I'm concerned this is one of the virtues of being GenX, we mainly use the internet and AI as tools. xo
Yes on brainstorming with AI, and, it also works for stroking my ego, if you know what I mean! 😉
My first reading, I liked the second version. My second reading, the first seemed more poetic. Both are nice. Love the pics! Very warm and welcoming.
I prefer version 1.
I'm a tea lover, and recently got different types of oolong and Yun Nan gunpowder to brew in Kung Fu style. Hmmmm!
If you like fermented tea and especially Yunnan 红茶，try Puer or 滇红
Oh I hate Puer! It's too dark and earthy to me.
Haha, that was my reaction for many years! But then it slowly grew on me … You may want to give green Puer a try.
Green Puer! Now that's news to me. I'm intrigued and will get some next time I visit Tien Ren tea house 🫖
Ask for 绿饼 or 生普洱, they are higher in caffeine though, and you can age them yourself. BTW I am surprised that as someone from Hong Kong you don't like Puer lol.
Thanks for the tips. Well, as someone from Hong Kong, I did not follow the traditions and hardly ever went to Yum Cha (dim sum) due to my parents' background (from Hangzhou and Indonesia). So I never developed the taste for puer. We drank a lot of dragon well though, famous from our hometown.
Thank you for sharing, Yi! I think AI struggles with this kind of translation, but it an communicate something of the mood. I'd marginally prefer the second version.
I use AI a fair bit (not on here) and gave DeepSeek a try. It had a meltdown the first time, then on a diffrent task it performed ok, though quite slowly.
But if you’d ask AI to directly compose a poem (whether in Chinese or English), it does it quite alright (in terms of following the rules of poetry). I suppose they are not trained to translate poetry, especially not the poetic imagery or aesthetic atmosphere.
Well, humans can still hang on to artistically creative jobs! lol
DeepSeek actually performs quite well in math and reasoning; the slowness you experienced could be the cloud host being overwhelmed by its “sudden fame”. Its LLM is small enough that most of us can run it locally. That is a big plus.
So interesting to read these two versions side by side. I have to say that neither is written by a poet. I love the photos. The tea sets and incense burner are gorgeous! Thank you for sharing, Yi.
Ha! I am not familiar with the meters and rhymes of English poetry, but I was hoping Claude would make up for me. Not! 😆
These have two completely different meanings -- and add in Google Translate's weirdly wrong version, as well.
I have not tried Google Translate ever since the popular AI Chatbots started running around ... Come to think of it, hasn't Google always been some sort of an "AI BOT"?
AI certainly has a lot of potential, and if there is an AGI, this "potential" is unimaginable now. But until then, it is just yet another tool in us humans' toolbox.
Leaves swirling works for me!
I think both of us are “allergic” to any mentions of ambers or ashes … 😉
I really liked both versions for different reasons. Great article, thanks!!
Thanks, Susan! :)
My pleasure. Hope you had a great spring festival.
The first translation gives me more tangibles. Curious to know which one ultimately won! :)
They are about even at this point lol!
I would love to know more about your experience with Deepseek!
Alright, you are the second reader who asked for that. I will write about my experiences (so far) in the near future. Thanks for reading, and, be curious!
I like both versions because they both translate better than I could do :) I love reading the comment even more. Great minds meet here and spark intriguing thoughts and discussions, which I enjoy a lot. I am sure AI doesn't experience feelings.
Whenever I read a Substack article that intrigues me, I read all its comments :).
Version 1 speaks deeply to me.
Thanks, Shonda! I will further refine and make it *my* translation :)!
Since the two translations have completely different meanings -- ashes vs tea leaves, sipping vs. ladling (spelled wrong by AI) water -- which one is correct?
Both translations of 酌 （sipping and ladling) are correct, so it really leaves modern readers to contemplate what the poet actually meant at that time. Strictly speaking, 尘 translates to dust, but it is not uncommon for Chinese literature to use word meanings metaphorically to describe something that's "dust-like".
"laddle" was my typo LOL but it's interesting that spell-check did not catch it.
Since you read and speak Chinese and can immerse yourself in subtle meanings, what is YOUR translation of the poem?
I agree, Bette, I'd like to read Xue's translation too.
Haha, I still need to work on it further. I think there is much still missing in both translations, not to mention that my translation may not even be considered a proper "English poem" (lacking proper meter/rhym?) I did copy and paste the dialogue I had with DeepSeek, but have not found a way to attach it within either the comments or Note.
Free verse poetry doesn't have to adhere to meter/rhyme rules. Poetic tone exists in the translations, and I like the image of ladling icy water (but for making tea, why would the waterbe icy?).
Thanks, Shonda! Appreciate the validation - I had been dabbling in free verse poetry for the exact reason you mentioned!
As for this poem, since the title specifically mentioned using "mountain springs" to brew tea, icy water before brewing makes sense. 泠 means cold and clear. What I have not expressed, is the doubling of 泠泠, which matches 瑟瑟 in the next line ...
I'm a translator, and I've been slowly but inexorably losing work, due to AI, so any mention of it makes me sad. Anyway, I prefer Version 1, if only because the poem's title is "Thoughts While Brewing Tea with Mountain Spring Water". Version 2 could work, if the title were something like "Thoughts While Sipping Mountain Spring Water, While The Fire In The Fireplace Slowly Goes Out." I'd like you to write about your "dialogues and collaboration" with DeepSeek, I think it'd make an interesting and "illuminating" read. Last but not least, that pumpkin-shaped teapot is a thing of beauty.
I am sorry, Portia, about how AI is starting to eat into jobs! I am also worried when I read some postings that were so obviously (and completely) written by AI. I think that more than jobs, our creativity is being threatened or at least challenged.
I will message you (or using Notes) to post my dialogue with DeepSeek.
I really like the second version ...something about the ash resonated...
AI did not come up with the second version until I offered my suggestion ... :)